The previous administrator—he was always out, visible, shaking hands, kissing babies, that kind of principal. The people loved him because he was always out, doing his thing.

 

Daniel:

In my previous job, at a smaller school, I was also very visible. Now, I feel like I’m not as visible as I want to be.

 

For the next two months, Daniel, principal at a high school in the Midwest, will be working with Arbinger consultant Chip Hugh.

 

Daniel:

That’s been a struggle because sometimes people think when you’re not visible, you’re not doing anything—but I’m doing the work that has to be done versus the stuff I’d much rather enjoy.

 

Together, Daniel and Chip set out to explore areas of Daniel’s leadership that, if unlocked, could fundamentally transform how he leads and the impact his team can have on the lives of students.

 

Welcome to Leading Outward, a podcast from the Arbinger Institute where we explore what it really means to live and lead with an outward mindset—seeing people as people. I'm Victoria Trammel, a senior consultant here at Arbinger. These episodes let you witness what instituting change actually looks like—sometimes easy, sometimes less so. I’ll join Chip at key moments to unpack the lessons and ideas that emerge.

 

Chip:

How long have you been at your school? When did you take over as principal?

 

Daniel:

Started four years ago. When I got here, nothing was in writing—no plans, no budgets, nothing. I wasn’t even at ground level. Tons of systems, documentation—all missing. Training a new leadership team and knowing the kids don’t get a second chance, that’s hard. I have high expectations for admin, for teachers, even my own son who’s a junior here. Every year we’re not where we need to be is another group who misses out.

 

A lot of our people are new and have nothing to go on. Without my presence, I worry they'll establish things that don’t fit my direction. But I only have so many hours in a day. I tell people: I’m an undiagnosed control freak.

 

Chip:

What do you mean by undiagnosed control freak?

 

Daniel:

I’ve done every admin role. I know what high quality takes, and it’s taken a lot of time to get things established the way I envision. Maybe I’m too controlling, or maybe it’s just the job.

 

Chip:

Why do you question being too controlling?

 

Daniel:

It’s not where I want it to be. I get feedback from our staff culture team—what staff are seeing and hearing. When people don’t see me, they think I’m not “here”—but I’m just busy elsewhere. If you’re not “in the trenches,” there’s pushback. Am I too controlling?

 

Chip:

I see a dissonance: “too controlling” is hands-on; “not in the trenches” is hands-off. How can both be true?

 

Daniel:

Some things stall when I haven’t given direct attention—staff may just wait on my input or continue old practices. In some areas, I just haven’t gotten there yet.

 

Victoria (pop-in):

When Daniel shares that he’s an “undiagnosed control freak,” I ask Chip what that must be like for a staff member to hear. When a leader names it honestly, it can be a move toward openness, but if used as a free pass, it can also invite resistance or resignation in others. Chip sees Daniel’s admission as a genuine request for help.

 

Daniel:

When people face challenges and come to me, my first thought is, “I trained you on this.” But I also hear that people don’t see me modeling what I ask, so they forget or dismiss it as “another thing” that doesn’t matter. It’s just theoretical now.

 

Chip:

You want a high standard—a noble goal. But you face this tension: relinquishing control versus maintaining quality. What’s your balance between empowering others and ensuring excellence?

 

Daniel:

It’s really tough. I want to orchestrate and give support, but I fight the urge to control direct outcomes.

 

Chip:

Leadership’s like surfing—the leader doesn’t control the waves, just responds skillfully. Too much order stifles, too much chaos is destructive. It’s about adapting, not ruling.

 

Chip:

Would you say you’re a “process” guy?

 

Daniel:

Yeah, I am.

 

Chip:

So is it hard to see that other people won’t perfectly fit the process, or want to find their own way?

 

Daniel:

It is. At my last job (50-person staff) I could do everything. Now I have a much bigger staff, multiple administrators…I want to work the plan, but can't control it all. So I fight the battles I can.

 

Chip:

You use a lot of “fight” language—battle, overcome, war. How do you see that impacting your leadership?

 

Daniel:

It often feels like a fight—there are kids' lives at stake here. Sometimes it feels as if we’re at war.

 

Chip:

If you’re at war, who’s the enemy?

 

Daniel:

The bureaucracy.

 

Chip:

But you’re the administrator. Aren’t you… the bureaucracy?

 

Daniel:

I try not to think of myself that way, but I guess so.

 

Victoria (pop-in):

I share with Chip how, in my past roles, I’d distance myself from decisions (“that was corporate’s call”) to stay on staff’s good side, but take credit for successes. Chip relates: how we position ourselves with our teams can shift as we seek approval or control.

 

Chip:

When you see work that doesn’t meet your standard, what do you do?

 

Daniel:

I try to offer grace, owning whether I gave enough feedback and support, then jump to coaching.

 

Chip:

How do you have time for that if you’re buried in policies?

 

Daniel:

That’s the catch.

 

Chip:

If you could choose—administrative work or connecting with people—which would it be?

 

Daniel:

Definitely connecting with people.

 

Chip:

It sounds like you usually know the right thing to do, but it doesn’t always get done. How do you react at home when things don’t go your way?

 

Daniel:

I just take it and do it myself. My wife says she doesn’t do as much now because I “took it all”—so things would be consistently done my way.

 

Chip:

Why does consistency matter?

 

Daniel:

It gives me certainty, puts me at ease. I don’t like surprises.

 

Chip:

But you don’t seem at peace.

 

Daniel:

…Yeah. I don’t think I am.

 

Victoria (pop-in):

As Chip says, that pause is everything. The discomfort of realizing our methods get us the opposite of what we truly want. Daniel’s either/or mindset—either I take it all, or I’m never satisfied—limits both him and his team. When leaders shift inward to outward, new options and possibilities open up.

 

Victoria (reflecting with Chip):

Chip, what have you discovered about your own leadership when you’re in this kind of self-protective pattern?

 

Chip:

When I was a manager, I used to take over HR issues, thinking I’d ensure care and quality. But my team leads actually knew the people and context better and got better results when allowed to own the process. I didn’t see those possibilities until I recognized my role in the bottleneck.

 

Chip:

If you know the right thing to do is to develop and trust people, why is it so hard to let go?

 

Daniel:

I insulate my staff from negativity. If anything goes wrong, I take responsibility. I can delegate tasks, but not responsibility. I want things done right—the way I’d do them. But I’m also realizing I sometimes encourage others NOT to become mini-versions of me, while struggling with that myself.

 

Victoria (reflection):

Daniel’s journey—moving from blaming circumstances or others to questioning his own motivations—reminds us that for all leaders, fear can shape our patterns more than we’d like to believe. Behaviors look productive, but underneath they can be self-protective instead of organizationally helpful.

 

Chip:

This week, reflect on who you trust to delegate most important tasks to, and what makes them worthy of that trust. Next time, let’s dig into how to use that understanding to grow more trust and let go in ways that serve both you and your team.

 

Join us for the next episode as Daniel and Chip continue this deep dive into what gets in the way of leading with impact. No matter where you are on your leadership journey, questioning old habits can open up the new possibilities.

 

The problems I’m complaining about—they’re not outside of me. I contribute to those problems.

 

Leading Outward is produced by the Arbinger Institute, the premier provider of leadership development and organizational transformation.

 

If you want to participate in a coaching episode to help others grow, email us at leadingoutward@arbinger.com. For help driving results in your organization, book a meeting with Arbinger at arbinger.com.