Personal-Application & Group-Discussion Guide
This episode of Leading Outward explores how genuine influence begins with listening. Retired wartime interrogator Eric Maddox shares how empathy—not intimidation—led to the capture of Saddam Hussein. Alongside business president David White, he shows that the same principles of listening and trust apply everywhere—from the battlefield to the boardroom to our daily interactions.
"The moment I stopped trying to get answers and started trying to understand, everything changed."
When Eric realized that traditional interrogation tactics weren't working, he abandoned intimidation for empathy. Listening wasn't a strategy—it became the foundation for every interaction. True listening is not a technique to deploy, but a mindset of curiosity and care.
Questions
When have you seen "listening" transform a tense or unproductive situation?
What shifts when we see listening not as a skill to perform, but as a way of being?
How might you shift from listening for information to listening for understanding?
"Who knows? Not me. But the people closest to the problem will."
Eric's success began with humility—the admission that he didn't know. Rather than assuming expertise, he listened to those closest to the truth. Curiosity and humility open the door to learning that arrogance closes.
Questions
How do you respond when you realize your assumptions might be wrong?
How do assumptions shape the way you interpret people's behavior?
Who are the people "closest to the problem" in your world—and how can you learn from them?
"Maybe I just need to listen and learn from their feedback."
When Superior Paving faced opposition from a local community, David learned that correcting and teaching would fail without first listening and building relationships. The Arbinger Influence Pyramid reminds us that influence starts not with correction, but with connection.
Questions
Which level of the Influence Pyramid do you tend to get stuck in?
How might building relationships first change your effectiveness in the other levels of the pyramid?
What's one situation where you could "move down the pyramid" before speaking up?
"Trust is the goal—and it gives you influence."
Eric's method revealed that influence doesn't come from control; it comes from earned trust. The same holds true for leaders in any field: communication without trust collapses. When people believe you care about them more than your own agenda, cooperation follows.
Questions
How do you know when you've built real trust—not just compliance?
What changes in people's response when they feel genuinely understood?
How does trust change the quality of influence in your team or organization?
"Sometimes, no matter how outward we are, we run into a brick wall."
Even with empathy, some people may not trust us—and that's okay. Listening doesn't guarantee outcomes; it honors others' agency. The goal is not to control their response but to keep seeing them as people, even when they can't see us that way yet.
Questions
How do you stay outward when your efforts aren't reciprocated?
What helps you maintain empathy toward those who reject it?
How might you measure success differently when outcomes aren't immediate?
"In every conversation, the person you're talking to is asking: Do you care more about me or yourself?"
We can hear five times faster than someone can speak, leaving mental space for distraction, or for deeper focus. Filling that space with a single intention—to understand—elevates trust and transforms communication.
Questions
What distracts you most from listening when others are speaking?
How might you train yourself to "fill the space" with attention instead of assumption?
What could happen in your culture if everyone practiced this kind of listening?